To begin with, the problem has two players: Greece on the one side and on the other side the-how-should-I-call-it, former Yugoslavian Republic Of Macedonia(FYROM). The problem is really complex and lies not only in the naming of FYROM, but also in the historical distortions and nationalist allegations it might yield. It is so important that is alive for some decades now and has triggered significant political events in both countries.
I am from Greece and it is a dispute I have lived with, throughout my entire life. I can still remember the ridiculous rallies that as a student I was engaged in (at the age of 9 or 10) during which we kept saying to ourselves: "Hell yeah, Macedonia is Greek!" and then went to our homes being sure we had done our job. In the meanwhile, Greek diplomacy was losing the one battle after the other and now we are engaged in talks of the so-called "composite naming". In other words, the naming dispute is a battle we have already lost. But let's take things from the beginning.
The whole buzz started in 1991. Tito's Yugoslavia is being teared apart and a new nation arises claiming to be the "Republic Of Macedonia". Kiro Gligorov is FYROM's Prime Minister and Costas Mitsotakis is Greece's. EU is using the name 'Macedonia' to which Greece objects and the dispute has just been born. In April 1992, Mr. Pineiro, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Portugal attempts to solve the problem, by suggesting the name 'New Macedonia', Greece says 'Yeah right' and a fierce political warfare begins. In the key UN General Assembly of 1993 FYROM enters United Nations with the provisional reference "former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia" hence FYROM. Both terms here are important. Provisional means that this is temporary situation and reference means that FYROM is not the name of the state. UN washed its hands and said that the name was an issue to be resolved. China is the first to recognize FYROM as 'Republic Of Macedonia'. In the course of 1993 and 1994 all EU countries and USA, Japan and Russia also do the same, resulting in the loss of the naming battle. Greek diplomacy had tragically failed leading to political instability and the eventual fall of the government in October 1993. Whatever followed was just talks and talks, without any substantial political importance. The course had been drawn in 1993.
However, a key-development in the dispute was the 'Intermediate Agreement' in New York,1995. Greece lifted the economic embargo on FYROM that Andreas Papandreou had imposed as soon he had been elected Prime Minister and FYROM, on the other hand, abandoned a whole series of ridiculous actions: Using the Vergina Star (Ancient Macedonian symbol) as the national flag, correcting their constitution that was referring to 'Macedonian people and their rights in adjacent countries' and many other nonsense. While all other issues were solved the naming dispute was not, and it was agreed that the two countries should do that under the auspices of UN. In the agreement, Greece agreed not to refrain FYROM from entering international organizations, provided that it would enter with the name FYROM.
Now the news is that, our neighbor wishes to enter the NATO alliance while Greece says it will not agree and will impose a veto on FYROM's bid, if the naming dispute is not resolved beforehand. One of the criterions for entering NATO is 'good behavior and relationships whith neighbors' , which is Greece's front line of defense. This also is not in contradiction with the New York Intermediate Agreement, since this was an out-of-NATO agreement and hence does not affect in-NATO affairs.
Whatever might happen, today almost 123 countries have recognized FYROM as 'Republic Of Macedonia'. For the most of the foreigners, it is hard to understand the significance of this dispute. Anyone should be free to choose the name he desires, right? If people leaving in Skopje want to use the name 'Macedonia' for self-definition, so be it, right? Well yes, as long as this does not hurt anyone, this is true. For Greeks, Macedonia is a part of the land's history to be proud of. I will not try to give proofs that Macedonia is closely tied to Greek history. It was just another city-state like Athens or Sparta hence it is absolutely ridiculous to try to give any historical proof that Macedonia is Greek. For me it is.
As a little boy, I couldn't understand why this should even be a 'dispute'. It seemed to me that it was so easy to prove that Macedonia was Greek (Macedonians were speaking the Greek language, they lived in the area of Vergina which is a Greek town blah blah..) that it should not be an issue in the first place.
Well, now I know to some extent of course, that international diplomacy works otherwise. Some countries simply do not care about history but about business. For example, China.Who cares in China about the Macedonia dispute? The quickly recognized it (I am sure they didn't even have to look at the name) and started making business with the new country (FYROM was the usual entrance of Chinese products to the European market) Some on the other hand, follow USA which generally is busy creating problems in the Balkans area and carefully maintains a hot-spot inside Europe's heart by promoting Albans allegations (support of Albans during Serbia's civil wars then NATO bombings then support of Kosovo's independence, seems to me as a nice strategic plan)
However we are not cry-babies nor do we wish spending our lives correcting anyone who uses the term 'Macedonia' instead of FYROM. After all, our economic relations have flourished , proving once again that economy players live in their own world. Despite all the political heat and the tension between the two countries, the volume of our financial transactions has been up 1500% from 1995 to 2006 (50 million $ in 1995 and 800 million $ in 2006) Imagine what will happen if we start franchising other ancient Greek names. Then our economy will skyrocket!
In summary my view is this: I look with sympathy our neighbor that is trying to find an identity to be proud of. However, the distortion that this causes is much more significant. People might connect the term 'Macedonia', 'Alexander The Great' and others with a territory that had nothing to do with Ancient and Modern Macedonia but also more importantly with people that have a negative DNA match with Ancient Greece. If this sounds nationalist so be it. I will keep on spending my time for this cause nonetheless. And we will keep on editing ridiculous Wikipedia articles like this one about FYROM:
"Over the centuries the territory which today forms the Republic of Macedonia was ruled by a number of different states and former empires, but Macedonian blood has always run in the genes of the Macedonians living in this region."
How ridiculous does this sound?? If anyone wishes to play on blood terms he can try understanding this:
"Αλέξανδρος Φιλίππου και οι Έλληνες πλην Λακεδαιμονίων"
That's all Greek to you? I am sure it is.
P.S - Not important since it has historical truths
To be serious it is all in the name: Macedonian comes from the Greek "μακεδνός" (makednos) meaning someone which is tall. Greek Macedonians are generally tall people compared to the 1.65 average of the other 'edition'
171 comments:
Pederakis, (generic name for all the greeks)
At least you can enlighten your humble readers with a link for this interesting statement:
"...but also more importantly with people that have a negative DNA match with Ancient Greece."
Sadly, there isn't one. But, I can provide a link for a genetic research and comparison on the Macedonians and the greeks named HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks (very interesting to mention against your DNA analysis, probably home-made).
"After all, our economic relations have flourished , proving once again that economy players live in their own world."
Not true. The Macedonians don't have any problems referencing themselves as FYROM, or Skopje, or whatever you greeks like in the business communication, but the greeks have problem if we, for example, say that our company is from Macedonia. In general, there is no business with greeks; you lie too much and try to cheat the business partner.
I think it is enough. I am amazed of myself writing comment to your stupid post, but you are worse than the other greeks because they at least defend their standpoint with all possible means (although they have not many), and you are hiding yourself behind some obscure ideas like "I am not interested of the dispute", but, "anyway, Macedonians are greeks".
i agree with you.
MACEDONIA IS GREEK.-
hey stupid greeks...i just want to say something about language.
Maybe you can read the history before you post anything about Macedonians and Republic of Macedonia!
Read that describe why greeks has not understand what told Alexandar III Macedonian when he come in greek, and when he add greeks in his army?
Maybe this question will be better:
What exactly is happen at 338 year BC in Heronea? Which army has broken, by army of Fillip II (and all we are know that Fillip II is father of Alexandar III Macedonian)?
I don’t know why you slavs are so blind at least to the fact that there will be no mutual agreement on this issue. The matter is closed, you have managed to steal the name and the world does not want to be bothered any more. I have been reading in other blogs, statements such as this : “there’s much more evil things in the world to worry about than this.” To make clear, this statement is to the effect that ” OK, a bit of evil name theiving was done, but worst things in the world are happenning so lets not concentrate on minor evils, lets move on”
Let me spell out for you what will happen as we move on.
1) An agreement will not be reached. This is due to slav arrogance, since now that they are on a winning streak they think they can have it all. Lock, stock and barrel as the saying goes.
2) Entrance to NATO, EU etc will be vetoed. They can bet their arses on that. What they seem to be forgetting, maybe because it suits them, is that NATO is an alliance, and there is no way these theiving slavs could be considered our allies. The alternative, is that Greece gets kicked out of NATO by the allies and then the slavs are asked to join in our place. Not a likely scenario, but they will keep working on it, afterall they pulled off more difficult cons.
3) They are in for some very hard years ahead afterwards.
4) I cannot see to far into the future, but things do not look very stable for their situation. I will not risk to guess, but I can see problems arrising from their Western borders. But then again the East, North and finally South are not that secure either. Don’t forget that “Papa retard Bush” will not always be around. The US is bound to wake up and start rectifying mistakes or maybe even “allowing” them to be rectified. They know all this. It is not something new that I am saying. They feel it in their gut. For their sake I hope they have an ace up their sleeve, otherwise, I would recommend they stock up on a lot of vaseline.
Anxiety and merciless anger is caused when something sacred is stolen and violated, dear slalban. Probably you don't know, because everything is lended and forged.
Anxiety will also be caused soon all over your Slalbania. I am not sure what is your origin, but I damn know your destiny, evanescent neighbor.
PS: Please, do not slaughter the word 'exodus', barbarian. Be patient, greek will be taught correctly soon.
Vardaskars, why don't you try to be French?
Give it a shot, will you?
Then again, I am telling facts, and you are telling fables. From my point it is senseless to teach you some basic things, because you don't even listen, you just offend and give strange prophecies ("I am not sure what is your origin, but I damn know your destiny, evanescent neighbor." This is a threat or something!?). Anyway, Greece has disputes with Bulgaria (exodus of Bulgarians), Albania (artifacts, immigrants etc.) and Turkey (Cyprus), not only with Macedonia. Is there a pattern showing up, or the greeks are the best and purest people in the world, so no neighbors are good enough for them.
Conquer the world, greeks!!!
Chill out, Nekjosi.
The fact is that you were born Yugoslav, you speak Slav and you
aspire Aegean Sea.
Please,stop propagandizing, Nekjosi.
Vardaska has problems with Albania and Tetovo, Turkey with Kurds and Armenias, Albania with Serbia. This is no news, Nekjosi, you unlock opened gates.
I understand you need a history, a brand name, a common ground and a purpose to unify your inhabitants. I also recognize that the current geostrategical equilibrium has offered you unexpected - but keep in mind, provisional- momentum. Try to exploit to the best and foundate a solid republic. We will be by you, if you need us.
But, please, stop propagandizing and playing with our sacred.
We will not allow it, till we are all dead.
PS : I did not mean to offend you neither by Slalbans nor by evanescent. On the contrary, you offend me deadly by the fordery of your allegations.
I heard that a quarter (25%) of FYROM's state bugdet is spent on propaganda.
That is a pity for a country in development.
I hope this Nekjosi is not a government-paid employee, running his eight-hour shift!
Hey i want to ask you:
Are you Athens or greeks?
Because your history told that the Aristotel and Platon were athens and that Filip II Macedonian was fighting with athens, where aethens losed!
What you want exactly, to be a Greeks or macedonian(but that never will be)
or athens?
BURN to hell, malagas!!!
UNITED MACEDONIA
Aristotle was not Athens. He was a philosopher, barbarian.
Free Tetovo
but yours history told that Aristotle was from Athens!
You want to change the history, but you make mistake in other section of history!
Better stop to do that!
Please, Slalbans, stop wasting your money on propaganda. Build a bridge or do a tax-cut
Someone stop this illiterate idiot Slaban barbarian to stop talking about Aristotle.
Send him to A grade,please.
to the idiot that does not know the basics:
Aristotle was from Stageira, a Greek Macedonian Town
Go and read a book for christ sake
and you read the history!!!
i repeat:
Read that describe why greeks has not understand what told Alexandar III Macedonian when he come in greek, and when he add greeks in his army?
Maybe this question will be better:
What exactly is happen at 338 year BC in Heronea? Which army has broken, by army of Fillip II (and all we are know that Fillip II is father of Alexandar III Macedonian)?
Stubborn illiterate Slalban strikes back..
Cover, immediately!
Fyrom's educational system needs reform urgently..
Nekjosi, your shift is over?
Why don't you take some extra hours, just for the salary, man?
to the village-idiot:
Stop chewing your propaganda pills.
We know you all:
Risto Stefov,Liljana Ristova,Nestor Oginar,Chris Purdef..
Stop crawling or at least keep your lameness to your pity self.
ti einai auta, philippa?
mallon to link pou ekanes, filipa, katevike giati bori na entopistei i sindesi
1. "Chill out, Nekjosi."
2. "The fact is that you were born Yugoslav..."
3. "Please,stop propagandizing, Nekjosi."
4. "Vardaska has problems with Albania and Tetovo, Turkey with Kurds and Armenias, Albania with Serbia. This is no news, Nekjosi, you unlock opened gates."
5. "We will be by you, if you need us. "
6. "But, please, stop propagandizing and playing with our sacred."
7. "...you offend me deadly by the fordery of your allegations." (probably you wanted to say "forgery")
8. "I hope this Nekjosi is not a government-paid employee, running his eight-hour shift!"
9. "Nekjosi, your shift is over?"
10. "We know you all:"
So, I was hoping that I will stop writing these comments that obviously are read only by stupid greeks, but you are unbearable.
First, as a member of a very "literate", "ancient" and whatnot nation, you should read well: my nickname is NEKOJSI.
Second, no, I was not born Yugoslav, I was born Macedonian (in 1987th, which is just before the breakdown of Yugoslavia).
Third, I am not propagandizing in any case, I was just challenged by the ignorance of the problems the author of the blog deals with.
Fourth, the countries you mentioned have problems with one or two of their neighbors, but Greece has disputes with ALL of its neighbors (that is the pattern part, if you didn't notice).
Fifth, we're OK, we don't need you, thank you very much.
Sixth, "sacred", hahahahahahaha :D :D :D. You have nothing sacred, don't overestimate yourselves.
Seventh, please, where is the forgery??? Except in the denial of the Macedonian minority in Greece.
Eighth, I am not paid employee of anyone, I'm a student, and on the contrary, I disapprove our current government, but that's another story...
Ninth, I have more important things to do than proving how wrong you are. So, yes, my shift is over on this site.
Tenth, it is the first time I hear the names of those people, but anyway, what the f*ck if you know us all? Are you gonna kill us? Well, please don't. Yes, it is a way of showing power, but, please, don't. I think that we were the barbarians, we should be threatening to you!
Bottom line, there is no debate with you. But, I understand that, you have no arguments to have a real debate.
Calm down, student Nekjosi.
The fact is that you were born Yugoslav and you speak Slav. This is undisputable.
The fact is that you need a brand name and a common ground for your community. This is understandable and condonable.
The fact is that there is an well-funded orchestrated attempt - a pawn of which is all you 'students' of propaganda - to usurp Greek symbols and History.
This is not acceptable and provocative.
The fact is that you aspire Aegean Sea. This is, also, unacceptable and provocative,naughty neighbor.
If you would allow me,I will denote two points.
First, there is no need to forge a 3000 year history to exist. Newly born countries arise all over the world. In vitro country experiments are held too. The bet of your existence should not be placed on the forgery of a neighbor country's well-respected history, but on the solidation of democratic society and economic flourish. We will be by you, in case you need us.
Second, our sacred, that is our history and symbols, is not debatable by no means. It is our defining character that we are proud of, and we rather all die than allow to be forged, violated and stolen.
So, calm down, dear neighbor student, we implore you not to leave the blog, just quit your ad lib improvisatory scratching with our history.
"Fellow neighbor",
My "ad lib improvisatory scratching with your history" is supported by scientific facts. Your history lies somewhere in Southern Africa! At least that's what your genes say. You can see and study the link I gave in my first comment for that.
Also, about our Slav language, I am giving you another scientific research. I will give you a little background on that: the Rosetta Stone, one of the greatest Ancient Egypt artifacts, is a stone with three scripts on it. The three scripts denote the same thing on three different languages. Until recently, the third language was unknown, but this research deciphered it by giving an analogy of the unknown language with today's Slav languages. And, guess what! The language seems to be Ancient Macedonian, much different from the Ancient greek language, which greeks claim that didn't have its written form (that Ancient Macedonians, because they were greek (!?), used the Ancient greek alphabet).
So, it is easy to comprehend who is giving "ad hoc improvisations", and who gives facts.
I know that it's not easy to look at the truth's eyes (especially when you are brought up with fake propaganda), and I leave that problem to you, but don't accuse me of forgery.
Genetics is for sure more exact science than history.
P.S. I am perfectly calm, I only feel some anxiety in your comments.
P.P.S. My regrets to panefsky for poisoning his blog with non-appropriate things for his IT blog, but he really pulled my tongue with the wrong accusations and ignorant statements.
This is all nonsense, which I'm fed up with. It's clear that we'll never come to the same standpoint, and, moreover, no political solution will lessen the hatred the greeks have for the Macedonians, caused by their fear of placing the truth in front of the whole world's eyes.
Beloved student neighbor Nekjosi,
the fact is that you cite two assays as desperate effort to provide your allegations with a hint of objectivity.
However, they both bear severe bias, lack in internal and external validity, have low statistical power and could not ever withstand any grade of scientific reasoning. Naturally, that is why they were never published in any peer-reviewed scientific journal.
In fact, they remind me of Paul Joseph Goebbels-motivated assays on the supremacy of his race.. and you resemble an Orwell character arguing
"War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength"
The fact is that you were born Yugoslav, you speak Slav and you
aspire Aegean Sea. That is unacceptable till we all die.
Perhaps, you could major in propaganda rather than in science or history.
Please, quit ad libitum manipulation of facts and place your efforts on improving your country's status. We will support your newly-born state, in case you need us.
Respectfully yours,
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas
@nekojsi
First of all thank you for avoiding the coarse language. As you can see I have deleted all inappropriate comments from both parties, leaving your relatively calm posts untouched.
Now, I don't want to argue to much, since as you correctly pointed out there isn't going to be any consensus on this dispute. I would like to respond however to some of your remarks.
You objected to the "negative DNA match" I wrote in the post that was obviously a figure of speech. There is no such thing as a negative match. But you actually seem to take the gene-thing seriously. You know, there are crazy people here in Greece claiming that Greeks from another Galaxy. They say we are from space and that the Gods have brought us here, you say we come from Africa (sub-Saharan area!)and so on. There is too much Greek nonsense to deal with, ergo no more of that please.
Now about the 'facts'. If you are really a student, you have way too much to learn about the concept of the 'scientific fact'. Both papers you cite have been written by FYROM's 'scientists' and some other Spanish immunologists that have already been rejected by the scientific community and their ideas are used as jokes in conference coffee breaks. If you wish to keep searching your history in stones, or bacteria or whatever, good luck.
So, if you wish to talk on facts here is a good advice. Make references to published papers, that have renowned authors and tell something about its scientific content. For example on the last 'research' you cite, the domain is .mk aka it comes directly from FYROM. So despite my good will for listening to your opinions, I won't waste my time in reading propagandistic sites. Relying on facts requires standing for high demands. You have shown you are educated enough to understand this. For me common language, religion, history and territory are facts already. That is my opinion and that is what I said in the post.
That's all. Your opinion is most welcome, but please avoid expressions like 'stupid post', 'ignorant author', or anything similar. Do not contradict yourself.
Go Obama, Go Greece
if you not believe in .mk sites, here i put a german site,that write about Macedonian hisory:
http://www.mazedonischerknoten.de/13.html
Go Obama, Go Greece...
This tells everything. Now you know who spend more and much money for propaganda, Greece or Macedonia, and who is paid to go over all Macedonian forums, and write foolish posts, and comments, poising forums that are for other purpose.
I noticed just now: deleting comments about the EXODUS of the Macedonians from Greece, huh? I think that some of the rest of my comments were more appropriate for deleting.
Anyway, interesting...
Fellas, give up whimpering and mistraction and provide us at last with only one peer-reviewed, published study.
Please, only one..
In any other case, you are low-quality demagogues, agitators and propagandists.
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas
Just one, please!
But if you cannot find, please manipulate one, just to have something to debate on.
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas
Silence..
All these days, silence..
All these days, all these years, all these propaganda based on no published study,
based on NOTHING?
huh, interesting...
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece
Go Obama, Restore Truth
Hellas
Someone needed urgently to give a published study..
My opinion is that Obama has no chance. And you know why is that for? Coz he is not Illuminati or Mason, or whatever. Even whole Greek population vote for him, he can not win. "They" can not let him win. Although I am not for anyone for anyone, especially not for "them", in that case I will be.
On your command there is an interviews made some 20-30years ago long before the Macedonia Greece name dispute.
Watch it on http://youtube.com/watch?v=CAYIDO5832Q
and I will try to find written facts for you. But just start with this one. And believe me, It's not made by any Macedonians.
Someone to give a published study in a peer-reviewed scientific journal , please..
No other youtube videos, propagandistic sites references or Disneyland arguments , I am humbly begging you..
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece
If someone put this video on YouTube, this doesn't mean that it's not true. I couldn't find it on other place. I will search more, but for now watch it....
In the meantime -during your search for a published study-,
please try a bit harder to provide an explanation why ancient macedonians
had Greek names (Phil-ippos=friend of horse, Alex-ander=protecting men, Amyntas=defender, Arche-laos= people's leader,etc)
worshipped Greek gods (even Olympus, the mountain where greek gods resided, locates in Macedonia)
participated in Olympic games
and speak, think and talk in Greek .
Because your effort will be futile, better place your attention on consolidating your fresh Vardaskan democracy, my fellow Slalban.
My friend, stop talking for Gods, because thats EVERYTHING you have. GODS. Noting else. Everything is based on your Goods. Instead of fighting with Turkey for Troy, to get it back, you are fighting for something thats not yours. Oh, oh, I am not even sure if Troy was Greek. Back than there were so many Republics, that they fight between each other.
I strongly and friendly recommend you to watch the YouTube video. It's made by you, Greeks. There are Greeks scientist. Check it out, you don't have to believe on this.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-oHivXjiX_w
Someone to give a published study in a peer-reviewed scientific journal , please
And what do you have, my fellow Slavlban ?
I don't know, what do you have? You are the one who reveal the question for the past, no me, or us. Think clever.
Past, present or future?
you are asking yourself?
Ok, spare gods, because they don't matter for you.
Names?
Games?
?
?
?
Think clever.
Think fast.
I somewhere heard that Skopje was the true capital of Roman Empire..
Message to all Skopje people
Anyone who will say "Macedonia is Greek" will receive 10 euros and a free tour to Vergina to admire the great Ancient Macedonian Tombs.
Friendly reminder: You will need a a passport for the tour
Illuminati probably covered it up..
Get to reality, Vardarskan, please land on earth.
I somewhere heard that Pela was capital of Ancient Macedonia, and Athens was capital of Republic of Athens, what does mean to you. That Macedonia was Greek? Also I heard about EXODUS of 750 000 Macedonians from Augean Macedonia in 1946-49. Just because they told that they are not Greeks, but they are different, they are Macedonians.
"Anyone who will say "Macedonia is Greek" will receive 10 euros and a free tour to Vergina to admire the great Ancient Macedonian Tombs."
You think you can bye us for 10 euros. You are lying yourself.
names?
games?
language?
gods?
culture?
a single published study to defend your allegations?
?
?
Hey slav the only EXODUS I know is a night club in my hometown.
And one more. I agree for you to be called 'Macedonians' as long as you pay your taxes.
"I somewhere heard that Pela was capital of Ancient Macedonia, and Athens was capital of Republic of Athens, what does mean to you. That Macedonia was Greek?"
Yes,
they were both city-countries in Greek territory
I knew you would catch on that, you poor fellow. Ok. You want more than 10 euros? Say 20? Ok but you will shout it out loud
So you don't know nothing about public war back in 1946-49. Typical Greek politics. Cover the world eyes with black texture. There are more then 500 000 Macedonians from Augean Macedonia all over the world, who are close witnesses. No one can told them that they don't have land in Augean Macedonia. They all have documents for that land.
Slalbans, do not slaughter the greek word exodus.
Use your Slavoid or try Spanish instead
You think that you can bye everything? Someone above that Macedonia spend money for propaganda. You just prove it wrong. Greece spend a lot, more a lot for propaganda. Believe me, even you think you can bye someone, you cant. There are no more betrayers in Macedonia. NO ONE can help you here. End of conversation.
What?
"No one can told them that they don't have land in Augean Macedonia"
What?
COME AND GET IT
bye=>buy
End of conversation.
Now you thing about it!
thing=>think
First of all it is "Aegean" not "Augean". Do not try to use Greek words. Your brain cannot handle it.
Because I feel sorry for you, maybe we could do something about it. I could adopt you for example. Or marry your sister.
You keep saying about documents, written proofs, published studies but you never, never have anything.
You are a pawn of Forgery, WAKE UP, Slalban
NO, no, I feel sorry for you. And we don't have to tell each other bad words. It's not in my level. You just prove how, with my excuse, gypsy you are.
And hey Slavs,
I was really worried about the document thing. You own Greek land? Please we should check it out. Just send them to a Greek justice court and they will test your case.
Or better yet, put them in your ass.
You think that Greece justice core is relevant. There are other....
core => court
Slalban a bad word?
For god's sake, it is a well-honored 20-years old experiment nation..
Naughty Boys!
You don't have any comments about the year of 1946-49, ha?
Go back to school, and learn it. I strongly recommend you. Or better find on-line materials, with relevant sources.
Oh, please, enlighten us, Slalban intellect..
Why do you think is important to comment on all your barbarian rubbish ?
I am glad you call us Vardarska Makedonija. Because there are two more peaces, Pirinska Makedonija and Egejska (Augean) Makedonija. That's most of the world doesn't knows. But some day, my friend, everything will be reveal, believe me.
NO COMMENT HA? I KNEW IT!
END OF CONVERSATION.
THAT'S ALL I WANNA HEAR.
HAVE A PLEASANT NIGHT.
Of course, everything will be reveiled on Apocalypse and Judgement day.
You didn't like my comment? It think it was insightful.
Anyway, farewell and stay calm.You are still a Slav.
Thanks god you called the end of conversation. I have just been waiting for your important permission.
Slalban barbarian Vardaskar,
peace = not war
piece = portion
αμπαλεα στους βρομοαλβανους!
Beautiful greek neighbor from my ancestor's city of Solun (not Thessaloniki or whatever you call it),
Why are you looking for a scientific paper or similar when you know the truth. If you live in Solun, you can surely experience the Macedonian spirit in the city. There is no proof of that, it is the sole feeling. I don't know how can you possibly live in that city. Doesn't it feel strange for you, to be a foreigner???
Bucharest Treaty - "The agreement, among other things, awarded most of Macedonia to Serbia and Greece."
I won't search for facts that YOU KNOW and you are scared of. And please, stop "humbly" begging for "published" researches, when you didn't gave one. At least I gave two. And there was one from some German site from another blogger. And the YouTube link... it's a documentary, a greek documentary, I would rather say a confessing documentary. And for every reference you will give from now, I can say that they are greek propaganda, like you say for mines.
At least I have tried to have a discussion and you have tried to insult the Macedonian people and country. And I found out that there is no discussion, no debate, no human form of argue.
You have agents all over Wikipedia and you are editing the articles about Macedonia and the Macedonians in real-time. And our country is the one who pays for propaganda, and we are the ones who spread the "poison" about Greece all over the internet!? It doesn't look like that to me.
Stop mewling Nekjosi and provide a single published paper in a peer-reviewed journal to defend your allegations..
Follow the simple algorithm (I guess it is a Slav word too). If you cannot, apply to your governement Service. If they cannot either, just manipulate one.
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas
You are confused Nekjosi, your ancestors lived in Wyoming, USA.
Nekjosi, why don't you try to trace your ancestors back to Mercury.
C'mon, get back to your spacecraft asap.
Told you... I won't search just to feed your fear anymore. You are scared and confused enough at the moment. Just tell me, greek from Solun, can you trace your bloodline and origin, lets say, for 150 years. Where is the origin? Athens, so called southern Greece, some island...?
150 years ago Solun was Macedonian. I'm not saying it will be Macedonian again, but you can admit the fact.
(You can't learn to read or "Nekjosi" means something offensive in some language?)
Nekjosi, be sincere, you have no ancestors, you live in a multi-culti 17-years old experiment country..
Think!
Sorry, Nekjosi, I do not speak Slav, no intention to offend.
Please, calm down. No need to say things I am sure you regret.
Breath steadily.
Hugs
No, i will not be offended by anything you say, I can understand your level good enough and figure out that I can't be offended by such...
And I think that a 6-years-old child can see from the tone who is calmed and who is nervous.
Nekjosi, do not get upset.
I am just forging a nickname, you have forged a nation's history.
Breathe, my friend and then,
follow the algorithm.
Salonique, Macedoine, Grece
Agent Nekjosi,
abort plan A.
Move to plan B.
Support we are from Toscane.
Central Agency, FYROM
Hugs,
Salonicco, Macedonia, Grecia
Allora,
Toscanian Nekjosi, bring up just one published paper, will you?
Thessalonique, Macedoine, Grece
And now, I'll reply in your style: "The weather is fine and sunny and Macedonians are the oldest people in the world, and the greeks are savages. And, oh world, hear my thoughts, because this is the ultimate truth of the mankind."
Yes, it's very easy to give such replies.
What a charlatan...
Oh, and my next comment should be:
The weather is fine and sunny and Macedonians are the oldest people in the world, and the greeks are savages. And, oh world, hear my thoughts, because this is the ultimate truth of the mankind.
AND
The weather is fine and sunny and Macedonians are the oldest people in the world, and the greeks are savages. And, oh world, hear my thoughts, because this is the ultimate truth of the mankind.
(And I go on and on with the phrase, and someone tells me "no, Macedonians are not the oldest, the Xs are older, here is link, a reference", but I go on and on and on)
And, of course, the signature:
РЕПУБЛИКА МАКЕДОНИЈА (REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA)
You are delusional,Nekjosi.
Stop spamming, pls.
Nekjosi, titrate to pregabalin asap, my friend.
Mental Police Alert:
Toscane self-alleged spammer wanted alive.
Reward includes Macedonia's History Books.
Surrender, Nekjosi, they are after u.
Θεσσαλονίκη, Μακεδονία, Ελλάς
Pretty familiar with medications?
I had to Google the term.
Take your dose, please, your doctor will be mad.
My friend Todor, now that you are a grown-up, face the reality,
your father left you for an Alban girl.
"Todor, Son i must go out from here.but while I am absent, stop jerking off all day, because it will harm your brain.."
I guessed you did not pay attention.
I am pretty moved by your overtly made-up story..
Try something more convincing next time, or practise english instead.
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas
Todor's comment was deleted for coarse language. If you want to insult Greeks you are in the wrong site.
And you don't PRACTISE English, rather PRACTICE, and don't guess two times in past tense ("guessed" and "did").
If the story is true, the main reason for the weak English knowledge Todor has is your (i presume special) educational system for the (denied) Macedonian minority in Greece.
panefsky, great thing, you cannot insult Greeks, you can insult Macedonians and no one will delete your posts! Interesting, I wouldn't thought of you like that while reading your other posts and taking into consideration the abilities you are presenting.
Nekojsi please.
I have left no comments that have swearing from both sides. Yes to making fun, no to coarse language. Simple rules. In case I have omitted something you can gently put it forward.
Nekjosi, you are not Greek, you are Slav.
Macedonians are Greek.
Simple?
Nekjosi, you are now Toscanian, remember?
OH, Greeks, only the name of the tombs which are placed all over the Aegean Macedonia will tell you what kind of people lived there, let say 20-30 years ago. I suggest you to go on graveyard and read yourself. And just remember, there is not gonna be any border between Bitola and Lerin, NEVER. There are still people from Greece(Aegean Macedonia) who comes to Bitola, and people from Bitola who goes to Lerin.
And again, congratulations to your striving. I can say you are thinking in the future. You all know that with your, or without your blessing Macedonia, let say for about 5, 10, 20 years will be part of NATO, and EU. And what than? Than my friends,there is not gonna be any borders! MACEDONIAN songs and dances will sound all over MACEDONIA, no mater which one, Egejska(Aegean), Vardarska, or Pirinska. Then my dear friends of Greece, then imagine what gonna happened then. Just imagine.
Now I understand your long term intentions. You are thinking in future. BRAVO! But do you think that your thoughts will gonna come true? Do you REALLY?
It is unpleasant to realize that there is no other viable solution but war.
I used to hold some reservations on a conflict, however, it appears to me as inevitable.
It will be at noone's interest, but it is something we could not escape from.
It was the first time I had a real-time e-conversation with you, Slalbans, I am disgusted of you and naturally, it will be the last.
I,now, consider you enemies-which I did not- and come to regard the greek politic on the issue as unjustifiably mild. From now on, I will join my voice to the others in Greece demanding a definite solution.
Behold, goodbye and good luck.
Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas
It is time for Slalbanic bewailings to sound all over FYROM
That's all you know and thats all you got. war. I was surprised. I expected at least 30 comments. You finally admit your defeat. Now are other times, fellows, there is not gonna be war. End of conversation. I suggest to the admin to close this conversation.
Behold, goodbye and goodluck
On Fe. 24 2008, I wrote a post which in summary was this:
" 1) An agreement on the name issue will not be reached.
2) Entrance to NATO will be vetoed.
3) The citizens of FYROM (and not Macedonia) are in for some very hard years ahead.
4) I cannot see to far into the future, but things do not look very stable for their situation. I will not risk to guess, but I can see problems arrising from their Western borders. But then again the East, North and finally South are not that secure either. Don’t forget that “Papa retard Bush” will not always be around. The US is bound to wake up and start rectifying mistakes or maybe even “allowing” them to be rectified. They know all this. It is not something new that I am saying. They feel it in their gut. For their sake I hope they have an ace up their sleeve, otherwise, I would recommend they stock up on a lot of vaseline."
Parts 1 and 2 of the above statement have since turned out to be true. We are now going through stage 3.
Hi everyone! I do not know where to start but hope this place will be useful for me.
In first steps it is really good if somebody supports you, so hope to meet friendly and helpful people here. Let me know if I can help you.
Thanks in advance and good luck! :)
Shalom
I am new here and I just wanted to say hi!
See you later
I have been visiting various blogs for my Term Papers Help research. I have found your blog to be quite useful. Keep updating your blog with valuable information... Regards
Отличная статья! большое спасибо автору за интересный материал. Удачи в развитии!!! :)
--
http://www.miriadafilms.ru/
[url=http://mpeg4.com.ru/index.shtml]Детские скачать[/url]
Hisgrades were passing to good. Iimagined I was being fierce, but in my delirious state, who knows howthe kid received it.
sexy interracial stories
necrophilia porn stories
college spanking stories
amateur beastiality stories
barebottom spanking stories
Hisgrades were passing to good. Iimagined I was being fierce, but in my delirious state, who knows howthe kid received it.
Possibly the BEST paper that I have read this year?!?
http://lookinsurance.info
Nice post
http://www.howtoprogramauniversalremote.com - Checkout
Sup every one, nifty message board I find It amply helpful & it has helped me out loads
I hope to be able to give something back and help others like this chat board has helped me
_________________
[url=http://iphoneusers.com]unlock iphone 4[/url]
It’s really a great and helpful piece of information. I’m glad that you shared this helpful information with us. Please keep us up to date like this. Thanks for sharing.
The name dispute between FYRoM - Greece is quite petty according to some observers who point the finger at Greece for keeping a small and impoverished, newly established Slavic country from joyning the ranks of the International community under it's freely chosen self-determined name of Republic of Macedonia.
Greece argues with some impressive academic backing, that the Macedonian Identity belongs to Greeks heritage, and that only Greeks have fraternal, geographic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties to that name. Greece has gone as far as to accept FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs usage of the Macedonian name but Not in the ethnic sense, or racial sense, or Nationality sense, or cultural-linguistic sense, when it is known that these Identity factors are all Greek-Hellenic.
Whats in a name anyway, some observers argue...it's just a name, but then, so is: Londonderry...or is it Derry ???
Whats in a name indeed: Taiwan is just a name...or is it Chinese Taipei ???
It's just a name right: The Falklands is just a name...or is it Las Malvinas ???
Petty arguing over a name isn't it: The Persian Gulf...or the Arabian Gulf, which one would you go for ???
If FYRoM was awarded the Macedonian name in the ethnic-racial context and in the cultural-linguistic contex, that decision would make a person born in Skopje...Macedonian. Now, does that mean, that a person born in real and proper Macedonia, in Northern Greece, is not allowed to be called Macedonian anymore ???
Sure, the name dispute is petty for some...until that is, it is your name that is being used without your consent, and in ways which undermine your fraternal links to it and your historic rights to it. A dispute over a name may seem petty, trivial, ridiculous and unimportant, but only to the ignorant because only ignorance gives way to expediancy.
FYRoM attempts to usurp the Macedonian name in order to apply it to Slavic speaking peoples who's Serbo-Bulgarian
forebears did not know this name when they first settled the Greco-Roman world at the top-end of the 6th Century A.D.
FYRoM wantonly appropriates ancient-Macedonian history and apply's the Macedonian name to it's hybrid mixed Serbo-Bulgarian language and to the Paeonian lands it sits on.
Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people...one day, all Slavic children from FYRoM shall respect that, the day they learn to respect themselves and their Slavic heritage
Good post and Smart Blog
Thanks for your good information and i hope to subscribe and visit my blog Ancient Greece and more Archaic Greece Government thanks again admin
top [url=http://www.c-online-casino.co.uk/]casino games[/url] hinder the latest [url=http://www.realcazinoz.com/]realcazinoz[/url] manumitted no set aside hand-out at the chief [url=http://www.baywatchcasino.com/]casino online
[/url].
[url=http://shenenmaoyiss.dinstudio.com/][b]sac longchamp[/b][/url]
[url=http://shenenmao.sosblogs.com/The-first-blog-b1/Sacs-en-cuir-Satchel-Obtenir-une-qualite-traditionnelle-b1-p1.htm][b]sac longchamp[/b][/url]
[url=http://shensacens.yolasite.com/][b]sac longchamp[/b][/url]
[url=http://shenenmaoyis.newgrounds.com/news/post/809446][b]sac longchamp[/b][/url]
[url=http://shenenmaoyie.hubpages.com/][b]sac longchamp[/b][/url]
Did you [url=http://www.onlinecasinos.gd]free casino[/url] tip that you can endanger Alter Mansion like a shot from your mobile? We get a inimitability motorized casino elbow an look to iPhone, iPad, Android, Blackberry, Windows 7 and Smartphone users. Judge your gaming with you and be a conqueror [url=http://www.avi.vg]dildo[/url] wherever you go.
We [url=http://www.onlinecasinos.gd]free casino bonus[/url] have a ample library of utterly freed casino games in regard to you to monkey tricks opportunely here in your browser. Whether you want to procedure a provender game plan or even-handed examine manifest a insufficient original slots in the presence of playing on the side of genuine filthy lucre, we have you covered. These are the exact same games that you can play at veritable online casinos and you can part of them all in requital for free.
Seeing your detection connected with Ugg boot, relating to the well-known and not-so-famous makes, announced its [url=http://uggbottesoldes.monwebeden.fr/]bottes ugg soldes[/url] selection of wool felt Uggs. Regardless of whether you aren't Display paw or perhaps Emu, those instances all concerning the suppliers get their preference because of this wide variety. They are not critically dear and actually very secure with regard to base. Having explained not wearing running shoes basically is based on the company. The particular Ugg boot Suburb Crochet running shoe may possibly it's possible correctly turn out to be regarded as thought about a very different version of Ugg sheepskin boots shoe. It is actually even more just like a knit boot but however certainly nice too as being a fantastic cold weather running shoe.
top [url=http://www.001casino.com/]001casino.com[/url] coincide the latest [url=http://www.realcazinoz.com/]online casino[/url] unshackled no deposit bonus at the leading [url=http://www.baywatchcasino.com/]casino online
[/url].
t What kind of clothes is suitable to pair with UGG boots? The beautiful girls can take advantage of simple accessories, such as scarves and headwear, they may give you great surprise. The UGG boots are sometimes designed in bold colors, the collision of orange and black color will offer you clear the level and great visual sense, the especially and wild single goods are also very beautiful. You can simple pair them with jeans, if you think it is too monotonous, you can add a pair of UGG shoes. Australian sheepskin has had a long reputation as being good for babies. In the 70s, Australian sheepskin was renowned as the ideal baby mattress topper, offering warmth, comfort and natural insulation to keep the sweat away from a baby's tender skin. UGG uses the finest sheepskin in making Infant Uggs in several different styles. [url=http://www.uggbootclearance.net]Ugg Boots Outlet[/url] he is assured as well as created in a more suitable an adequate amount of by then publicized at incredibly affordable prices. First shop it are generally ugly, but now total in a considerable amount of styles, capacities and colors and might the fact is be inbuilt in different a bit more costumes you on wearing. until now because the boots are actually and might1 well placed cooler for thermal insulation, you should also garment any a bit more sing garment or alike a good jeans. It is totally wrong. The focus is that the color is of unity. If you have been of richness, you should pay attention to the color of the uniform. The following are some tips for you to choose the best pair of UGG boots for your family. Buy them with casual style; comfort and simplicity are also very important. In cold winter season, Sheepskin UGG shoes would be the most useful selection for you personally with using tender assets for calves and leaving some space, so it may make individuals feel cozy.they are able to possibly be used [url=http://www.uggclearancetang.com]ugg boots clearance[/url] In the 1930s farmers started wearing these boots to protect them from the cold. It is only in recent times that ugg boots have become the fashion statement that they are. Their popularity has soared especially so, after the many celebrities who have been spotted wearing these boots and making a fashion statement. Wearing sheepskin boots is something that you should keep for days when the weather is exceptionally cold because these boots tend to be very warm and you do not want to be wearing inappropriate shoes that makes it uncomfortable for you. Ugg boots are the perfect wear for when you need to walk a lot. You can wear uggs with skinny jeans or skirts teamed with leggings.you can use the water repellent sprays to keep them away from getting wet
hi
I come from Macedonia. i like your article and i can agree with it, it is your point of view.
moreover, i like you end point. Nobody cares about the name or the people, everything is bullishness.
While we are hatting each-other, insulting and being stupid, the people who are running our countries are making politics, money and become even more powerful. Markets are running and making profits of it. Tensions are growing because the actions of the media. Media is making people stupid and brainwashed. Try to understand each other and be aware that we as a human being face the same opticals.
We need to look at today story and think about the future. Why to build hate when we can closer cooperate and love each other.
You think that the big corporations think about the people or the problem. No, nobody see problem while the business is running very good.
Be aware that we, the people depend from each other, we are those who decide what to do... Isn't better to be a human ? or is better to fight each other, destroy other people life's, be hungry and angry, suffer ???
Critical thinking is the best solution, the solutions are not coming from insulting each other. We are the same, we are humans.
i hate to be hated by people from Greece because i am who i am. It is the same for the Greeks in Macedonia because they are Greeks. Think if the border does not exist. Everything is politics, we are ruled and lead by third party. Please consider my comment as a good approach. I think that people are brainwashed and stupid talking and fighting about something that they don't understand what is behind the problem and is ruled by people in suits...
[url=http://ph-pills.com/en/item/generic_zyban.html]zyban online[/url]
Hello. And Bye.
Post a Comment